I received the following post from a dad who recently experienced a loss. He correctly suggested this topic should be a new thread.
I think it's an excellent question and one that I struggled with a lot. For some reason, it is also one I often forget to address, so I am grateful for how beautifully he articulated it. I will comment after I get it posted -- I hope you will too. Thanks everyone.
Tim
Hi Tim,
I'm new to the blog. Our daughter Selah was stillborn on September 22. I apologize for commenting off topic, but I'm wondering if you'd be interested in starting a thread about how to maintain friendships during the early stages of grief. More specifically, I'm finding that I'm surprised at the friends (who have been truly good friends to me in the past) either 1)avoiding me or 2) pretending nothing has happened because their wife sent a sympathy card in the mail, so let's all just get on with life. I really understand that the whole thing is awkward for friends who have never suffered this kind of loss, and I don't want to label (most of) them as just too shallow to handle real friendship...i.e. I want to maintain the friendships, but I feel that my ability to connect meaningfully with them anymore is severely hampered by their response (or non-response?) to my loss and grief. Obviously, if they're true friends, starting an honest conversation with them is going to be a good place to start. But the catch-22 is that right when I'm most needing the friendship, I don't have the emotional energy to be the one doing the reaching out...I don't feel like I have the energy to be in the "teaching" role (i.e. 'teaching' friends how to be good friends to me--or anyone--who has lost a baby). I'd love to hear yours and others' comments, suggestions, etc., regarding this.
Seasonal Mood Changes
I am personally very affected by the changing seasons. Anyone who has ever lived in Minnesota definitely understands what changing seasons are (although the warm ones seem kind of short), and I find that shorter days and gloomy skies don't work well for me. Because our daughter's stillbirth occurred in September, it seems that Fall can be a particularly difficult time for both my wife and I. We chalk it up to Kathleen's death, but I sometimes wonder if that's really it. Especially since we have two living children who have birthdays two days either side of Kathleen's.
How about you? Any thoughts? Have you come up with any ideas that help to deal with it (besides suggesting I move to Arizona)?
How about you? Any thoughts? Have you come up with any ideas that help to deal with it (besides suggesting I move to Arizona)?
Intimacy & Subsequent Pregnancy - When?
Whenever I bring this topic up while speaking to a group, there are always a few red faces and eyes darting to the floor. Frankly, that's what makes it such an important point to discuss. Many of us find it hard to express our sexual needs, desires, fears, and insecurities under the best of circumstances. When you add grief to the mix, it can get really dicey and be a topic we simply want to avoid.
If you are lucky enough to be comfortable talking about this stuff to your partner, you are lucky, and probably will not see what the big deal is. But, if you find this difficult, it can be a real source of problems that can result in adding to feelings of loneliness and isolation.
So -- when is the right time to resume sexual relations? When is the right time to start trying to have another baby? What if one of you wants to try again but the other just isn't sure they want to?
Unfortunately, there are no black and white answers to any of these questions. Like everything, it depends on your situation -- physical condition, emotional state of mind, relationship, and numerous other factors. Often times people will hear that you should wait a minimum of six months to a year before trying again. Depending on the circumstances and timing of your loss, that makes total sense, and any decision about the physical and emotional risks of another pregnancy should first be discussed with your doctor.
Sometimes the tougher question can be when to resume being intimate? Again, physical considerations are part of that decision, but most of the time this decision "simply" requires communication between you and your partner about your feelings.... Come to think of it, maybe THAT'S why I recall avoiding this topic with my wife.
Seriously, while we definitely felt close emotionally in our need to be held and comforted -- especially when trying to sleep through the night -- neither of us mentioned how we were feeling about sex. When it got to the point that I was feeling like I wanted to, I wondered how I would deal with the guilt of having a moment of pleasure? Those feelings were compounded because I then wondered if it would affect my performance, and that REALLY made me insecure! But, once we were able to talk about it and I realized that we each had our own set of emotions surrounding that moment, we were able to relax and things just happened naturally.
As for another pregnancy, after discussing our situation with our doctor, he felt comfortable supporting us in trying again. Because it had taken us over two years to get pregnant the first time, we decided that we should go for it sooner than later since we were in agreement about wanting more children, if possible. Surprisingly, Monica got pregnant right away, and three months after Kathleen's death, we were expecting another baby. We were very happy, of course, but we had not stopped to think what our timing in starting to try could potentially mean. Our next child was actually due on Kathleen's birthday, and the feelings of deja vu were tremendously stressful for me. I found myself working hard to not get excited because the bliss of pregnancy was gone and it simply became a time to survive. Even all these years later, I have some regrets about what I missed out on during that time in terms of being able to feel the anticipation and excitement of expecting a child.
Keep in mind this is only MY experience. I can definitely tell you that Monica did not feel the same way and her version of this story would be very different from what I just shared.
I guess that really is the point. Don't think that any story you hear suddenly means you know how you're going to feel. These decisions are unique to you and very important to your relationship. No desire or fear is wrong and there is no reason to judge harshly either yourself or your partner. While you may not have previously ever had the need to discuss your sex life with your mate because you were on the same page, know that may not be the case right now. It certainly doesn't mean your marriage is in trouble, but you both should realize the importance of being open and understanding of one another.
I hope others of you will share how you dealt with these decisions and offer any insights you have. The beauty of the blog is that if your face gets red, none of us will ever be the wiser.
If you are lucky enough to be comfortable talking about this stuff to your partner, you are lucky, and probably will not see what the big deal is. But, if you find this difficult, it can be a real source of problems that can result in adding to feelings of loneliness and isolation.
So -- when is the right time to resume sexual relations? When is the right time to start trying to have another baby? What if one of you wants to try again but the other just isn't sure they want to?
Unfortunately, there are no black and white answers to any of these questions. Like everything, it depends on your situation -- physical condition, emotional state of mind, relationship, and numerous other factors. Often times people will hear that you should wait a minimum of six months to a year before trying again. Depending on the circumstances and timing of your loss, that makes total sense, and any decision about the physical and emotional risks of another pregnancy should first be discussed with your doctor.
Sometimes the tougher question can be when to resume being intimate? Again, physical considerations are part of that decision, but most of the time this decision "simply" requires communication between you and your partner about your feelings.... Come to think of it, maybe THAT'S why I recall avoiding this topic with my wife.
Seriously, while we definitely felt close emotionally in our need to be held and comforted -- especially when trying to sleep through the night -- neither of us mentioned how we were feeling about sex. When it got to the point that I was feeling like I wanted to, I wondered how I would deal with the guilt of having a moment of pleasure? Those feelings were compounded because I then wondered if it would affect my performance, and that REALLY made me insecure! But, once we were able to talk about it and I realized that we each had our own set of emotions surrounding that moment, we were able to relax and things just happened naturally.
As for another pregnancy, after discussing our situation with our doctor, he felt comfortable supporting us in trying again. Because it had taken us over two years to get pregnant the first time, we decided that we should go for it sooner than later since we were in agreement about wanting more children, if possible. Surprisingly, Monica got pregnant right away, and three months after Kathleen's death, we were expecting another baby. We were very happy, of course, but we had not stopped to think what our timing in starting to try could potentially mean. Our next child was actually due on Kathleen's birthday, and the feelings of deja vu were tremendously stressful for me. I found myself working hard to not get excited because the bliss of pregnancy was gone and it simply became a time to survive. Even all these years later, I have some regrets about what I missed out on during that time in terms of being able to feel the anticipation and excitement of expecting a child.
Keep in mind this is only MY experience. I can definitely tell you that Monica did not feel the same way and her version of this story would be very different from what I just shared.
I guess that really is the point. Don't think that any story you hear suddenly means you know how you're going to feel. These decisions are unique to you and very important to your relationship. No desire or fear is wrong and there is no reason to judge harshly either yourself or your partner. While you may not have previously ever had the need to discuss your sex life with your mate because you were on the same page, know that may not be the case right now. It certainly doesn't mean your marriage is in trouble, but you both should realize the importance of being open and understanding of one another.
I hope others of you will share how you dealt with these decisions and offer any insights you have. The beauty of the blog is that if your face gets red, none of us will ever be the wiser.
For Those Who Post On This Blog
I keep forgetting to post this, but wanted you to know that there will often be a delay between when you write something for the blog and when it shows up. I have it set so that all posts have to be moderated by me. I know there are disadvantages to that, but on our A Place To Remember bulletin board, we have had some very disrespectful things written by people either wanting to challenge someone's actions/beliefs or attempting to be funny.
Posts do show up on my phone (most of the time) so I am usually aware of them fairly soon. I just don't want you to think what you wrote has been lost. Thanks!
Posts do show up on my phone (most of the time) so I am usually aware of them fairly soon. I just don't want you to think what you wrote has been lost. Thanks!
Escaping
How do you escape from your grief? We all know that it can be overwhelming at times and it's only natural to seek ways to get away from it. Some feel guilty for trying to take a break. Others run fast and try to never look back.
What positive things have you done to bring yourself some relief from your pain? What have you done that you know was not the healthiest way to go about it? Where is that middle ground where you achieve that much deserved relief, without having your behaviors be hurtful or damaging to your relationship?
Remember that you can be anonymous here and I can assure you there is little I haven't already heard or done myself. Thanks!
What positive things have you done to bring yourself some relief from your pain? What have you done that you know was not the healthiest way to go about it? Where is that middle ground where you achieve that much deserved relief, without having your behaviors be hurtful or damaging to your relationship?
Remember that you can be anonymous here and I can assure you there is little I haven't already heard or done myself. Thanks!
Regrets
Following a crisis in our lives, it is not unusual to look back and wish we had done things differently. Maybe it was something that was said to a spouse or partner that was insensitive or misinterpreted. Maybe it was rushing the time that you were able to spend with your baby. Or, maybe it was making the choice not to take pictures and now wishing you had.
The bottom line is, all any of us can do when living in crisis is to simply make the best decisions possible at the time. When our world feels like it's crashing down around us, it only makes sense that the things we choose might not be the same as those we would under different circumstances. In the midst of deep grief, it's easy to get caught up in the regrets and think about them to the point of driving ourselves crazy. If our partner in any way seems to be holding those decisions against us, the situation is ripe for a lot of pain and misunderstanding.
I would like to know if any of you have experienced significant regrets and what you did to be able to move on. I can share some of my own experiences, but would like to hear from you first. Thanks!
The bottom line is, all any of us can do when living in crisis is to simply make the best decisions possible at the time. When our world feels like it's crashing down around us, it only makes sense that the things we choose might not be the same as those we would under different circumstances. In the midst of deep grief, it's easy to get caught up in the regrets and think about them to the point of driving ourselves crazy. If our partner in any way seems to be holding those decisions against us, the situation is ripe for a lot of pain and misunderstanding.
I would like to know if any of you have experienced significant regrets and what you did to be able to move on. I can share some of my own experiences, but would like to hear from you first. Thanks!
Why us?
There was a new post yesterday under the Self-Esteem heading on this blog. As the dad mentioned, he was not sure he was necessarily facing a self-esteem issue, but was more struggling with the question of "why us?".
I certainly experienced the same feeling when Kathleen died. How can something like this happen to two people who wanted a baby so much? How can it happen to two people who are good parents and want to share their love with a child? How can it happen to people who have a belief system and try to live their lives accordingly? The questions can go on and on. I just wish that with the wisdom I have gained in the last 25-years I could say I have an answer, but I don't. I think the closest thing to an answer I can come up with is that there is no answer.
However, I can assure you that you are likely going to hear all sorts of theories from people who are trying to make you feel better. Things like, "it was meant to be," and "God has a plan for all of us," "there must have been something wrong," or, "you just have to try again." Again, the comments will go on and on. Keep in mind that most of those people are simply trying to find the same answers you are and are sincerely attempting to be helpful.
The dad who wrote the post also made comments about being angry with others who had children. He even mentioned feeling a sense of shame for being the father of a child who died. But it was his last sentence that really touched me. He said, "It is a helplessness that seems to be cruelly designed to crush a man." I have never had anyone so eloquently describe exactly how I felt at the time of our loss...helplessness cruelly designed to crush me.
With the benefit of time and healing on my side, I can see now that the helplessness, anger, and envy are all part of what we refer to as grief. They are just some of the emotions held in the grief capsule, and when we can express them, we are taking steps toward healing. I know that is of little consolation when you are in pain, but I hope you can find some hope in that.
Thank you to each of you who make a contribution by reading or writing something on this blog, or others like it. You are touching people in countless ways.
I certainly experienced the same feeling when Kathleen died. How can something like this happen to two people who wanted a baby so much? How can it happen to two people who are good parents and want to share their love with a child? How can it happen to people who have a belief system and try to live their lives accordingly? The questions can go on and on. I just wish that with the wisdom I have gained in the last 25-years I could say I have an answer, but I don't. I think the closest thing to an answer I can come up with is that there is no answer.
However, I can assure you that you are likely going to hear all sorts of theories from people who are trying to make you feel better. Things like, "it was meant to be," and "God has a plan for all of us," "there must have been something wrong," or, "you just have to try again." Again, the comments will go on and on. Keep in mind that most of those people are simply trying to find the same answers you are and are sincerely attempting to be helpful.
The dad who wrote the post also made comments about being angry with others who had children. He even mentioned feeling a sense of shame for being the father of a child who died. But it was his last sentence that really touched me. He said, "It is a helplessness that seems to be cruelly designed to crush a man." I have never had anyone so eloquently describe exactly how I felt at the time of our loss...helplessness cruelly designed to crush me.
With the benefit of time and healing on my side, I can see now that the helplessness, anger, and envy are all part of what we refer to as grief. They are just some of the emotions held in the grief capsule, and when we can express them, we are taking steps toward healing. I know that is of little consolation when you are in pain, but I hope you can find some hope in that.
Thank you to each of you who make a contribution by reading or writing something on this blog, or others like it. You are touching people in countless ways.
Self-esteem
Someone recently mentioned that they wished Sherokee Ilse and I had included a section on "self-esteem" in our recently published book, Couple Communication After A Baby Dies -- Differing Perspectives. While we do touch on the topic periodically throughout the book, we did not devote an entire section to it.
The person who brought this to our attention explained that they had some pretty serious self-esteem issues following their loss because they felt like they had failed. Obviously some women feel their bodies somehow failed their baby and men struggle with wondering why they were not better able to protect their family from devastation. I recall adding another dimension to that when I started to feel like a failure as a husband -- as well as father -- because there didn't seem to be anything I could do that would help Monica "move on".
Once someone starts to feel bad about themselves, it can spiral into showing itself in all sorts of ways, most of which are not healthy. It seems that when we are able to be totally logical, we can understand that we did not intentially do anything to hurt our baby, and there are simply some things in life that we are unable to control. Unfortunately, when we're extremely sad and depressed, logic does not come easily.
I would like to hear your thoughts and experiences with this issue. Nothing is more healing than knowing we're not alone and hearing how others coped.
The person who brought this to our attention explained that they had some pretty serious self-esteem issues following their loss because they felt like they had failed. Obviously some women feel their bodies somehow failed their baby and men struggle with wondering why they were not better able to protect their family from devastation. I recall adding another dimension to that when I started to feel like a failure as a husband -- as well as father -- because there didn't seem to be anything I could do that would help Monica "move on".
Once someone starts to feel bad about themselves, it can spiral into showing itself in all sorts of ways, most of which are not healthy. It seems that when we are able to be totally logical, we can understand that we did not intentially do anything to hurt our baby, and there are simply some things in life that we are unable to control. Unfortunately, when we're extremely sad and depressed, logic does not come easily.
I would like to hear your thoughts and experiences with this issue. Nothing is more healing than knowing we're not alone and hearing how others coped.
Father's Day is Coming
After losing a baby, Father's Day can be one of those days that you face with mixed emotions. No matter what your circumstances are or how many living children you might have, it often is a day to stop and wonder what might have been.
For those of you with recent losses, I can tell you that I believe this days does get easier over time. Not because you forget, but because you heal. Healing is obviously the ultimate goal for all of us, because anything short of that robs us of our ability to truly enjoy life and I don't think any of our children would want that for us. The thing to keep in mind, however, is that in order to heal, you must first allow yourselves to hurt. Too many times, men think that by stuffing their pain as deep in the recesses of their mind as they can, they will be able to "skip" the grief and the hurt. I'm here to tell you that it won't work. You may be able to kid yourself for months -- or even years -- but it will almost certainly come back to bite you at some point.
So, keep a couple things in mind.
First of all -- whether you have other living children or not -- you are a dad. Try not to ever deny yourself that honor.
Secondly, consider letting the people around you know what would make this Father's Day special for you. They can't read your mind and you likely are not necessarily coming off on the outside the same way you are feeling on the inside. Some of us have a real gift for that little quality!
Finally, please accept my congratulations on being a dad, and best wishes for making this day meaningful to you. Not only do you deserve it, but your children do as well.
For those of you with recent losses, I can tell you that I believe this days does get easier over time. Not because you forget, but because you heal. Healing is obviously the ultimate goal for all of us, because anything short of that robs us of our ability to truly enjoy life and I don't think any of our children would want that for us. The thing to keep in mind, however, is that in order to heal, you must first allow yourselves to hurt. Too many times, men think that by stuffing their pain as deep in the recesses of their mind as they can, they will be able to "skip" the grief and the hurt. I'm here to tell you that it won't work. You may be able to kid yourself for months -- or even years -- but it will almost certainly come back to bite you at some point.
So, keep a couple things in mind.
First of all -- whether you have other living children or not -- you are a dad. Try not to ever deny yourself that honor.
Secondly, consider letting the people around you know what would make this Father's Day special for you. They can't read your mind and you likely are not necessarily coming off on the outside the same way you are feeling on the inside. Some of us have a real gift for that little quality!
Finally, please accept my congratulations on being a dad, and best wishes for making this day meaningful to you. Not only do you deserve it, but your children do as well.
A great weekend at Faith's Lodge
I'm slowing at posting this because things have gotten kind of busy ... which is a good thing when you are a small business owner in a poor economy.
Sherokee Ilse and I lead a couple's retreat at Faith's Lodge in northern Wisconsin on Mother's Day weekend. It was a fantastic experience and once again reminded me of the many blessings Kathleen's life has brought me.
Being around young families who have had more recent losses is never easy, and it almost sounds strange to say we had a fun weekend ... but we did. There was much laughter and certainly a fair amount of crying, but the openness and sharing that took place is what meant the most to me. Hearing parents, men in particular, talk about how their lives have changed and their priorities rearranged since their loss, gives me hope that all the pain we have experienced has not been for nothing. It once again proves that it is possible to learn and grow from even the most horrendous experiences that life might toss at us.
Each of the couples at the retreat had a very unique story -- but those stories also shared a common thread. These moms and dads loved and wanted their babies and they will spend the rest of their lives remembering and honoring them, learning to incorporate their memory into their own present and future. I have no doubt that they will be successful in doing that, and their children will continue to touch countless people in the years to come.
If you are not aware of it already, check out Faith's Lodge, and consider spending some time there. It truly is a place of healing and hope.
Sherokee Ilse and I lead a couple's retreat at Faith's Lodge in northern Wisconsin on Mother's Day weekend. It was a fantastic experience and once again reminded me of the many blessings Kathleen's life has brought me.
Being around young families who have had more recent losses is never easy, and it almost sounds strange to say we had a fun weekend ... but we did. There was much laughter and certainly a fair amount of crying, but the openness and sharing that took place is what meant the most to me. Hearing parents, men in particular, talk about how their lives have changed and their priorities rearranged since their loss, gives me hope that all the pain we have experienced has not been for nothing. It once again proves that it is possible to learn and grow from even the most horrendous experiences that life might toss at us.
Each of the couples at the retreat had a very unique story -- but those stories also shared a common thread. These moms and dads loved and wanted their babies and they will spend the rest of their lives remembering and honoring them, learning to incorporate their memory into their own present and future. I have no doubt that they will be successful in doing that, and their children will continue to touch countless people in the years to come.
If you are not aware of it already, check out Faith's Lodge, and consider spending some time there. It truly is a place of healing and hope.
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